So there I was, reading the new post from Yuletide admin

[oneiriad]

We are also trying out an experiment in which fandom nominations will only be approved if 2 or more people nominate them.

I thought the Yuletide was supposed to be a chance to get and write fic in tiny or non-existent fandoms, not a fucking popularity contest?

Comments

[kabal42]

Oh, bloody hell. I hope that won't make it into some weird mess of trying to get people to nominate your things in return for you nominating theirs or something. I can anticipate a lot of confusion and stress there. Hm.

[calvinahobbes]

And, really, there was already so much haggling last year, with people offering their last nomination slot in exchange for other things.

[kabal42]

True… I was already considering asking you two if we should trade nominations. (You may both consider that an open offer if this stands. I only have 2 things I'm sure I want to nominate this year.)

[oneiriad]

Some will give up entirely, some will use dentists, and apparently they're doing something funny about character eligibility too. So yeah, stress - and take it from me, it's not actually fun to end up making do with a request because the fandom you wanted flunked out...

But at least the mods are reconsidering the nomination rule. Ah. Isn't this just a lovely way to get into that ol' Yuletide spirit?

[kabal42]

*nods* I'm not too keen on the character elegibility thing either! At least it won't stop anyone from -using- said character in a fic. Say, you have a cross-over with something that just demands the use of a character, that's otherwise too big.

Yes, I saw that right before I went to bed. I'm glad they're at least rethinking. It seemed there was overwhelming (and mostly polite) disagreement. Oh, the classic wank of Yule! Gives a whole new meaning to 'Jingle Bells' ;)

[oneiriad]

I'm seeing some comments on the post about eligibility that seems to indicate that they might be choosing to tighten the demands on obscurity level (max number of stories etc.) instead, but let's wait and see what this announcement they promised will say.

Though I still can't for the life of me figure out what they were thinking?! If this is a necessary change, they should have seen the inevitability of wank and been prepared with good explanations. If it isn't, well, really not a good first impression for the new mods to make.

[kabal42]

Doing it that way makes more sense. Ok, it will be sad for those medium-sized fandoms that would previously have made the cut, but it's at least in the spirit of the fest. And with new fests popping up for those exact fandoms, I think it's okay.

Over on DW's yuletide comm, the idea is posed that the new mods were probably just excited about technical solutions and forgot to consider the philosophical implications. Yeah, not a good start, but everyone new makes mistakes! Modding is definitely not an exact science…

[oneiriad]

It always sucks when fandoms are ineligible, but as long as the rules are clear and stated upfront (so that you don't nominate, say, EMH, fully expecting it to be okay because the characters are so distinct), I don't actually mind them being strict. Admittedly, I might just be saying that because I'm fairly sure even my largest fandom-to-nominate should be able to make the cut, albeit just, even if they lower the limit to 200 stories on AO3. But yeah, fandoms outgrowing yuletide is good - they can go forth and have their own exchanges.

Hmmm. I've been seeing conspiracy theories about how it might have been AO3 putting on pressure to minimize the influx of new tags, mostly spurred by the comment about how the 2 nominations thing was supposedly the least worse option imposed by an unspecified other. I like yours better.

[kabal42]

It does, but yes, if the rules -are- clear, then it's fine. The problem is that, as they say, it has to be case-by-case… So it's hard to know if it's okay or not before you nominate. I don't think that can be helped much, there will always be incidences of doubt and confusion. But as long as they try to minimize that, I'm fine too.
Most don't get their own, though, but I love that there are fests now catering to smaller fandoms who are too big for Yuletide - and that this is exactly their goal :)

I hadn't seen that, but then I only went through the announcement post and didn't look for more. And that sounds like it's inferring a lot! I mean, who says that the 'other' was promped by AO3? I like mine better too. Of course they want to ease the load on AO3 as well - it's an important partner in the exchange, you don't want to piss off the people who do so much for your exchange.

[oneiriad]

Well, it's not a yuletide without a conspiracy theory. Though this one I blame on the mods not just shutting up until making a proper post with explanations and decisions, instead of leaving the circling piranhas with a random comment that hints of dark secrets.

Mind you, I wonder when we're going to get that proper post. Isn't it tomorrow over there in the US of A soonish?

[kabal42]

Heh, there's probably truth to that. You're right about the mixed signals, but again, beginner's mistake.

It is. Soon it will be 11 am on the East Coast and 8 am on the West. So probably not too long. Unless they need more time and we get it later.

[oneiriad]

And it's up and they've eliminated the 2 nominations thing. Good.

They make vague talk about tightening eligibility rules and limiting number of nominations. Less good. Vague is never good.

Hmmm. The best thing I've seen about this whole mess, is a post over at an anonmeme, that makes the point, that the biggest problem with this mess probably is that the problem that the Yuletide mods are trying to address (tag bloat on AO3 due to overwhelming number of nominated fandoms) is not viewed as a problem by the participants, but as a feature - Yuletide is cool because of the overwhelming number of fandoms. To which I basically agree - I understand that it is a big, technical challenge for the people running the exchange, but I do adore those long lists of fandoms and moments of "wauv, somebody want that?"

[kabal42]

Yeah, vague is bad… They probably need a little time to hash it out amongst themselves.

You know, that's very true. That IS one of the really cool things about Yuletide. I love going through those lists and both marvelling at it and considering offering it.

[calvinahobbes]

I see a lot of sour attitudes in comments, and I would tend to agree with the overall reaction. If they want to prevent "bloating", they should just be hard and limit nominations to two or three fandoms.

I'm sort of hoping they'll change their minds...

[oneiriad]

Well, they froze the comments and put up a notice that they're reconsidering the nominations rule. Though honestly, I doubt they'd truly succeed in preventing bloating - I mean, people will just coordinate or get their dentists to help out. But it's probably a good way to scare off potential newcomers...

Of course, they also seem to be doing something funny to character eligibility that will rule out anything with a character named Sherlock Holmes, nomatter how small or different from Doyle...

Those new mods are really not making a good first impression...

[kabal42]

Well… given the 'related fandoms' rule they're also implementing, I'm pretty sure any Sherlock Holmes anything would be out :-/ It does seem like they're really trying hard to get a lot of fandoms out. This also means no "Earth's Mightiest Heroes" for instance - it's both too close to Avengers in other versions, and most -if not all- of the characters would be out *pouts*